For each question, answer the question completely using proper English and make sure to proofread! You must also respond to at least one other student post to receive full credit.
Sunday, July 5, 2009
Chapter Eight-Numbering: "How Many, How Many"
According to Faust, why was counting the dead such an important task? Do agree with her assertion? Why or why not?
According to Faust, counting the dead was such an important task because “numbers represented a means of imposing sense and order on what Walt Whitman tellingly depicted as the “countless graves” of the “infinite dead.””(251) After the conclusion of the Civil War, “counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.”(250) Most importantly, counting the dead “promised a foundation for control in a reality escaping the bounds of the imaginable.”(251)
I do agree with Faust’s assertion regarding the importance of counting the dead. I feel that statistical analysis of the carnage turned death into something distant and unidentifiable for survivors. The lives of husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons were transformed into tallies on casualty reports, which made them much easier to comprehend. While this is a bitter concept to grasp, counting the dead allowed Civil War survivors to acknowledge death as merely a statistic. This allowed them to more effectively come to terms with the unimaginable horrors that had been imposed by the war.
Faust believes that counting the dead "helped shift focus from individual to total, from dead to the Dead." "Counting had grown in the decades that proceeded the war." The counting during the Civil War helped to develop more recent ideas like, as historian Patricia Cline Cohen calls it, "infatuation with numbers." “The military’s purposes in counting the dead had also influenced the reliability of military records.” Also, as Nick pointed out, “Most importantly, counting the dead ‘promised a foundation for control in a reality escaping the bounds of the imaginable.’” I agree Faust's assertion that counting the dead was such an important task. It helped to also in a way comfort the people who had lost love ones. This counting opened peoples' eyes to the fact that they were not alone. It also showed the true sacrifice of the war and allowed people to recognize the true sacrifice of the Civil War.
According to Faust, counting the dead became a important task because "the hundred of thousands of lives lost be rendered purposeful, worth their expense of blood and suffering. [As declared by Horace Bushnell]" (211). Once the carnage of the Civil War had stopped, the Americans needed to focus on the entire casualties of the war. As pointed out by Nick and Erin, it shifted the view of the dead from single individuals to the entire number. It was a way of escaping from some of the pain. It was a reality of the Civil War and this process acted as a 'control'.
I also agree that the idea of counting was an important task. The Civil War left few unscathed and the numbers became a huge realization to the masses. The idea that few would die had changed rapidly, and by witnessing first hand the devastation, they began to understand the sacrifices made. Families began to understand the pain of other families. And the two sides began and understanding of each other's pain. It would have served as an eye opening experience to the effects of war. But, as Erin mentioned, also of each's sacrifices for their beliefs.
I agree that the counting was very important. You couldn't just look at the war as though only you had felt the loss, but also that everyone had. People may have felt like that throughout the entire war, but once the fighting was done, it was about honoring the dead as a whole and a separate. It was a comfort and job. And as pointed out in the Chapter name, it was "Our Obligations to the Dead." (211).
Faust believed that counting for the dead was of major importance during the war. She says that when words can’t describe such destruction, “counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow… to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation” (250). It helped to “shift focus from individual to total” (250). Counting was a way of commanders to “assess battle’s challenges and achievements” (253) and know their assets left to work with. Eventually, “deaths became a measure not of defeat but of victory” (254), a way for military officials to know if they had succeeded at pushing the enemy back or had become the defeated.
I agree with her idea on the significance of counting. People realized that the war was nothing small like they had anticipated- it had become a horrendous battle with massive destruction. In knowing the numbers of casualties, an individual knew that he was not the only one suffering, that there were many others who had suffered loss as well. There was the understanding that “a world lay behind every name” (260). Counting the number of fallen soldiers made known the real meaning of the war and its costs.
You made a very good point when you stated that counting was a way of making death a statistic. It is difficult to grasp the idea of one hundred individual’s deaths, a thousand individual’s deaths, a hundred thousand individual’s deaths. By making a single death a “tally,” the idea of death was a lot easier for people to understand. They could see the numbers and realize the damage such a gruesome war had caused. Very good way of stating the concept.
Nick- I completely agree with your statement "The lives of husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons were transformed into tallies on casualty reports, which made them much easier to comprehend." When a loss is so vast, such as in the Civil War, it becomes hard to accept and understand it. Tallying the deaths provided people enormity of the deaths.
Numbering is a way for historians to chronicle the dead and the mistakes so that future generations of soldiers can learn from the consequences of poor medical care and human wave tactics it is also important to number so as to stem the assertions of "infinite dead"(121) these emotional accounts may help the historians such as Ms. Faust but they are of little consequence when the next war is on our heads. That is the purpose of history itself so that we don’t make the same mistakes emotion matters little when the war is upon you and you have to make the right decision.
For example imagine you are a WWI commander and the Germans are on the higher ground and have artillery. You then remember that Pickets charge during Gettysburg was in the same situation you take into account the casualties and the men necessary to have made that charge successful if you have the men and equipment to take the battlefield that is great but if you don't you will learn from history and hold your position. Emotion is secondary tactic are paramount
According to Faust, counting the dead was such an important task because “Americans confronted the conflict and its death tolls predisposed,”(251). It also was to understand the war like said here “In the face of the war’s scale and horror, statistics offered more than just the possibility of comprehension.”(251). There is also “countless graves” of the “infinite deaths” said by Walt Whitman. This was big because most people wanted what this “young South Carolina women” when she said she was “seeking not just a count of the dead but an accounting for death’s impact.”(250). The last big thing was “When at last the war was over, the nation demanded the answer to her plea.”
Personally I agree with Faust on the importance of the death tolls. I think that getting the death tolls would be one way to get this war into are past in a way. Counting the deaths lets us know exactly how bad this war was and when that is down the people in this time can move on with their life. It was also a good thing to have people comprehend the Civil War. Knowing how many people had died in the Civil War would let people know how bad this war was and they can comprehend this horrific war. Also comprehending was a good way to get the war in the past. The biggest thing for the death tolls are to have people comprehend and put the horrific Civil War in the past.
I agree with your comment. I like the comments on Faust and the importance of death tolls. All the quotations you put down were good but by far the best was “countless graves” of the “infinite dead.””(251). That was good. Also saying this, “counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.”(250) was good. Agreeing with Faust was also good because I agree with you. Saying that the tolls would help comprehend the war and it horror. A good one is saying that the surviving soldiers would see the deaths as statistics. That was a good comment.
According to faust numbering was a way to put organization and sense to the losses. The statistics also ment more than just the possibility of comprhension. The numbers not only ment the numbers of the dead but the impact of death itself.
I agree with Fausrs points because numbering the dead was not just for historical facts or just to be put away in some book. They were there for feeling and showing the impact of the death during this time. This showed exactly how hirrble this war was on the people of that time,and still to Americans today. These numbers also helped people out this horrible war in the past.
According to Faust, counting the dead was a very important task during and after the war. One cannot put a price on dying, but counting the dead put a price on the Civil War. The more soldiers who died, the higher the price was for the war. “Numbers represented a means of imposing sense and order on what Walt Whitman tellingly depicted as the ‘countless graves’ of the ‘infinite dead’.” (251) Statistics, such as numbers, worked toward finding out the toll of the war. Through this process of counting, the reality of war came into perspective for all those who witnessed and survived it.
I would have to agree with Faust’s assertion about numbers and counting. When going into war, one must know the price he is willing to pay to win. When I say the word “price,” what do you think of? Money? Wealth? What about price being the sacrifice that the soldiers paid to make us what we are today. People in those times couldn’t comprehend war unless there was a number or price affiliated with it. The counting of the dead was able to find the true realistic cost of the Civil War.
I like that you elaborated on Picket’s charge during the battle of Gettysburg. If the price had been too high, do you think Picket would have still fought? Gettysburg was one of the bloodiest battles in the war. The number of dead at the end of the battle put a true cost on the overall war. When looking back on the Civil War, the counting of the dead was like the receipt of the war. It showed the price America paid to fight.
Faust believed that counting the dead was a very important task. Statistics often appeared to speak more to the people than words could. It was often hard to grasp the idea of how many men were actually lost until one saw a number. In a way, counting also brought a sense of relief to some people. "Names might remain unknown, but numbers need not be."(260) Counting was also a way for both the North and the South to honor their dead. This was a system to ensure that no man died without being acknowledged, even if his identity was lost. Naming was very difficult to do, but counting was much easier. In the South, they believed that counting told "...the story of 'how well [their unit had] stood'..."(259)
I do agree with Faust regarding the importance of counting the dead. I think it was another way for people to show respect to soldiers that had lost their lives fighting in the war for what they believed in. Counting may not have been as sought after as the identities if lost loved ones, but I think it brought understanding to people. It showed exactly how many men had lost their lives fighting for a cause. This was a very powerful thing.
I agree with what you have said. I also believe that counting showed people how out of hand the war had become. You make a good point when you say " an individual knew that he was not the only one suffering". I think this was very important for people during this time. They needed to know that they were not alone, and counting reinforced this idea.
According to Faust, counting the dead was a very important task. Statistics often spoke to people more than actual words did. The more soldiers that had died made the statistics even more reliable than words. Statistics of the war, such as numbers had worked in order to find the death toll of the war. As the body count rose, the reality of what civilians and surviving soldiers had encountered during the war became true.
I would have to agree with what Faust had written. A person who wants to join the army has to understand that, because you have joined the army means you are willing to die in order to achieve victory. People back then couldn’t understand war unless there was a number to go along with it. Counting the dead made many people realize that there was a cost in the Civil war.
I agree with what Matt had said. I too agree with Faust’s assertion about the numbers and counting. The actual cost of the Civil war had not been understood correctly by many.
You make a very good point when you state that counting the dead was “another way for people to show respect to soldiers that had lost their lives fighting in the war for what they believed in.” I think that our nation making the monumental effort it did to count our dead is a testament to our determination to show respect for all of the soldiers that had been killed in the Civil War. By attempting to identify all those who had been killed, the people of the United States ensured that the men who had died so that our nation could be what it is today would never be forgotten.
The author explains how important it is to count the dead with many passages in Chapter 8. One passage stuck out to me; "statistics every unit of which stands for the pale, upturned face of a dead soldier. These were not cold abstractions but numbers that literally...possessed a human face." (260). It makes sense to count every single dead man that was lost in the Civil War. Every man fought for their side and they should be honored with a number on the casualty list. Each number represents each soldier's efforts in the war, and that makes it very important to count every soldier's death.
And I have to say I do agree with Faust's assertion. The importance of counting every man is very significant. It shows that we respect and appreciate all the men that did die for us. The statistics show that no soldier will die un-noticed; because we do value their efforts in the Civil War.
Counting the dead was such an important task according to Faust because there were so many deaths and they seemed infinite. Americans had an "infatuation with numbers,"(251) and by counting the dead it "promised a foundation for control in a reality escaping the bounds of the unimaginable."(251) It helped people understand the carnage of the Civil War. To bring in actual statistics instead of words helped greatly. People often got "false impressions as to the extent of losses." Bringing in numbers gave people a realistic idea of how many soldiers died. It also helped the military. It helped the military know "who was left to fight."(252) "A commander needed to know his military strength."(252) This helped greatly in case the U.S. needed protection soon. It also honored the dead. People would respect the soldiers more if they knew how many actually gave their lives fighting for what they believe in.
I agree with Faust's assertion. It is very important to let the American's of that time and for all future times know how many men gave their lives for what they believed was right. It shows that we care greatly for the sacrifice the soldiers made by counting all their deaths. Telling everyone the great number of lives lost helps the U.S. remember the severity of the war even today.
I agree with what you wrote. You said "The statistics show that no soldier will die un-noticed; because we do value their efforts in the Civil War." Counting the dead greatly honors them. Instead of the outrageous numbers some people claimed had died it showed people the actual number of deaths. Each stastitic represents a soldier who gave his life for what he believed in, and that deserves to be honored.
When you said that "when a person joins the army they have to realize they might die to achieve victory," I was saying to myself, yes I completely agree with that. A soldier entering a war should know what they are getting themselves into. I also think that for the outsiders in the war, such as women, elders, and etc., the numbers were there for them, so they too could realize the depths of the war. And Evan I also agreed with your statement that people did not understand the war without the death numbers to back it up. People back then were innocent to battles that huge, for us in twenty-first century, we understand the concept of death numbers since we have experienced it more often then the people during the Civil War time.
Counting deaths was such an important task to Faust because of the seemingly infinate numbers. "Americans confronted the conflict and it's death tolls predisposed to seek understanding in quantitative terms. In the face of the war's scale and horror, statistics offered more then just the possiblility of comprehension." Faust believed that the numbers helped Americans understand the "countless graves" and the "infinite dead". The numbers helped people nationwide understand how big of a toll the war really was. Still today the numbers help people understand the vast size of the Civil War.
I agree with Faust because counting the dead helped a nation understand how big the war was, the numbers "took on new salience with the outbreak of war."
Your statement that the numbers of the Civil War helped people understand the price that was paid for our freedom was very strong and very well thought through. "When going into war, one must know the price he is willing to pay to win. When I say the word “price,” what do you think of? Money? Wealth? What about price being the sacrifice that the soldiers paid to make us what we are today". I believe that this is what Faust wanted us to see. Great job Matt.
According to Faust counting the dead was a very important job. It showed the South and the North of how may died for their nation and cause. Also it helped keep track of all the soldiers who lost thier lives. Almost 500,000 americans lost their lives in the Civil War and out of all the wars in U.S. history the Civil War had the the highest death toll.It Also kind of was a rememberance to the all the soldies.
I agree with Faust's idea of counting Just like many of you do. It kept track of the dead and also reminded many Americans of what happened in the Civil War. It also showed everyone the cost of war.
Matt, you made a really good comparison when you said “When looking back on the Civil War, the counting of the dead was like the receipt of the war. It showed the price America paid to fight.” That comparison is so true. It helped everyone understand how much America had truly lost.
I agree with your statement that "Telling everyone the great number of lives lost helps the U.S. remember the severity of the war even today." Reading over the statistics of the number of deaths during the Civil War was almost like a wake-up call to me, because I'd never really realized before the severity of the Civil War, and I'm sure many other Americans in the past and present have felt that way too.
According to Faust, counting the dead was such an important task because it helped them realize the magnitude of their losses. "Counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation. Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead" (page 250). They also counted not just to count the dead, but to account for the impact all the deaths had made. For soldiers who had fought in the war, sometimes counting helped them find an explanation and a justification for the turnout of a battle. People would count to "establish the dimensions of the war's sacrifice and the price of freedom and national unity. They counted becausenumbers offered an illusion of certitude and control in the aftermath of a conflict that had transformed the apparent limits of human brutality. They counted, too, because there were just so many bodies to count. Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatially new about this war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost" (page 260).
I agree with Fast's assertion about counting. I think counting helped Americans realize and understand how many people had given their lives willingly to fight for their country and what they believed in. The huge amount of fatalites helped show people in the past, present, and future how much the Civil War really meant. The statistics help to show the real severity of this incredible war.
According to Faust counting the dead was of the upmost importance because it was vital to put a price on the lost. The Civil War took more than 600,000 lives and Faust felt that it helped to know that your loved one was simply a part of that statistic. “Numbers represented a means of imposing sense and order on what Walt Whitman tellingly depicted as the ‘countless graves’ of the ‘infinite dead’.” (251) This type of loss needs to be disclosed. When so many people lose someone to the war, it helps to make them simply a statistic. Faust felt that counting the dead and knowing the statistics would help Americans move on, heal, and forget.
I definitely agree with what she is saying here. When you know that your father, brother, son or husband was one of 600,000 men to die in the Civil War it helps put a perspective on what the loss really was. Putting a price on something can cause you to lose taste or lessen the value of it very quickly such as a car or a home, and I feel that the same principles apply in this situation.
According to Faust counting the dead was such an important task because it gave people a sense of how many the country lost. It allowed people to get back to reality and to see the reality of the "countless dead." "They counted to establish the dimensions of the war's sacrifice and the price of freedom and national unity." Counting really showed the price of war and how important freedom was to people. Numbers of the dead of the Civil War gave a sense of the losses, of what people were grieving, and of what Americans were facing.
I do agree with Faust that counting the dead of the Civil War was important. I agree because counting really woke the American people up, showing them the number of men who died for their country. Giving them statistics made it easier for families to comprehend the deaths. Sadly the outrageous numbers allowed people to grasp the terror put forth by the war.
That was very well written. I agree with you when you said "The huge amount of fatalites helped show people in the past, present, and future how much the Civil War really meant. The statistics help to show the real severity of this incredible war." The statistics are showing us teenagers now what had to occur to get freedom back then.
I have to agree with what you are saying here. I definitely agreed with you when you said "The lives of husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons were transformed into tallies on casualty reports, which made them much easier to comprehend." This is definitely true, and as you said it made things much easier to grasp. Adding it all up helped the healing process and made it much easier to cope and move on.
According to Faust, counting the dead was a very important task because it let the country know how many soldiers were lost in the war. It showed how many died for the North, and how many died for the South.
I agree with her assertion because I feel that it was important to let people know what really happened during the war, by how many people died.
I agree with your statement of "counting the dead helped a nation understand how big the war was." The nation deserved to know how big the war really was, and families deserved to know what their loved ones died for.
Faust believed that counting the dead was so important because it shows the true destruction of the war and brings attention to the losses as a whole instead of individual. With the totals of the war losses poeple can see how bad it can get. With the people informed they may be more likely to try and keep the peace. I do agree that the counting was important because people of the country need to know the true cost of the war.
Faust felt that counting the dead was an important task because it helped people really grasp the idea of how many people were killed in this war. It "helped shift the focus from individual to total" It made people stop just thinking about their own loss, but about their nations loss as a whole.
I agree with Fausts assertion. I think that people needed to realize how truely devastating this war was, so that it would never happen again.
Faust believed that counting the dead was such an important task because it helps show what really happened during the war. You could talk about a tiny battle of only ten people and it sound like a big deal until you find out how many people were involved. So getting the exact number or as close as possible is very important because it show the significance of it.
I agree with Faust because that was a big part of our history and things like that need to be noted.
I agree with Mary Harris. The tolls that both sides took is an important fact in our history and it helps many to grasp the idea. "Statistics offer more than just the possibility of comprehension"(251).
In Response to Tanner Corah The I agree with the statement "People would respect the soldiers more if they knew how many actually gave their lives fighting for what they believe in." I think that this is very true, and it might have been difficult for some civilians to grasp how many soldiers sacrificed their lives if they didnt have an actual number.
According to Faust, counting the death tolls of the Civil War was an extremely important task. She states, “In the face of the war’s scale and horror, statistics offered more than just the possibility of comprehension,” (251). Faust implied that statistics could bring a sense of closure to the war and grieving process in which the families and friends of the bereaved were going through. With the great magnitude of the war’s carnage and death toll brought on a wave of despair and grief. For some time, because the magnitude of the war was not quite known, families must have felt quite lonely in their sorrow. Because the statistics gave an idea of how many people were experiencing such desolation, a new aspect came into play. One could now see that their struggles, sorrow, and despair was shared, as was their cause of war. The people were once again united. I agree with Faust’s opinion that counting the dead was an important task without any reservation. It was important for the families to finally feel a sense of unity with their community. Also, without a sort of closure, the grieving process could continue without end. As Faust said, “In the face of the inadequacy of words, counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation.” (250)
In response to Chandler Cerveny: As you said, "getting the exact number or as close as possible is very important because it show the significance of it." The significance of a battle is an important part of war. It determines the wins and the losses. Overall, it will determine the victor of a war and which cause proved to be more worthy.
Faust believed that counting the dead was so important because numbers spoke louder than words. Americans in that time had an “infatuation with numbers,"(251) and still do.
I agree with Faust’s idea’s because the number’s show how truly huge the sacrifice of the war was.
According to Faust, counting the number of fatalities was of crucial importance because this would easily prove the true cost of the Civil War. “Numbers represented a means of imposing sense and order" (251) and knowing the number of men who had sacrificed themselves for their beliefs was a necessity. These statistics served to show everybody just how vastly devistating this conflict had really been.
I do agree with her assertion because it seems to me that it was imperative to know the accurate number of lives lost to the fighting. Knowing the quantity of soldiers who had fallen while serving their respective sides was correct to have been a priority. Faust's allegation was, in my opinion, very precise.
I agree with what you said about the task of counting the men fallen in battle helping to open "peoples' eyes to the fact that they were not alone" in having lost a loved one. You also said that coming up with an accurate number of deaths was of aid to showing "the true sacrifice of the war" and this I also agree with. 600,000 is a huge number and knowing that this digit represents the men lost in the Civil War allows us to imagine just how immense this conflict ended up being.
Faust believed that counting the dead was so important because “…counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow…and helped shift the focus from individual to total, from death to Dead” (250). The number of dead during the Civil War was an unimaginable number, but knowing that there was a person behind every tally of those that died, and also a family that was mourning as well, was inconceivable. Americans had to “… seek understanding in quantative terms. In the face of the war’s scale and horror, statistics offered more than just the possibility of comprehension. Their provision of seemingly objective knowledge promised a foundation for control in a reality escaping the bounds of the imaginable” (251). People were able, in a sense, to comprehend numbers much more than just knowing that it had destroyed families and that many were dead.
Knowing the numbers also showed how much each side had sacrificed. “…numbers became a language in which to express and assess battle’s challenges and achievements” (253). The soldiers couldn’t really explain the horrors of the war in words, but numbers were able to tell everyone about their sacrifice. One general was able to “…explain his military virtuosity by translating his experiences into numbers of dead” (253).
Many soldiers had also died that were unidentifiable. They were still able to be honored because even though they had lost their name their sacrifice was still remembered in a number. Numbers showed how much the nation had given up.
I agree that numbers were important. It helped the nation understand what the Civil War had done. It is sad that each life had to become a statistic but there was no other way of comprehending what had happened. “‘One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic.’” I think that knowing the numbers helped families grasp what had happened instead of just knowing that many had died.
According to Faust, counting the dead was such an important task because “In the face of the inadequacy of words, counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow”. (250). Counting allowed a specific answer to the vague question of how bad the war really was. However, while counting provided a definitive answer, it was still a difficult task to comprehend hundreds of thousands of deaths, “Yet even as they counted, Americans speculated about what the numbers they so eagerly amassed actually meant.” (259). I concur with Charles Lewis, that ‘Had a million been slain, it would have been only one in a million homes.’ Even by counting the dead the war was still incomprehensible, however it did help citizens grasp the immensity of the war.
I fully agree with Faust’s assertion of the importance of counting the dead, because “statistics offered more than just the possibility of comprehension. Their provision of seemingly objective knowledge promised a foundation for control in a reality escaping the bounds of the imaginable.” (251). By remembering the hundreds of thousands who’ve died, we can ensure that another civil war may never happen again.
I agree that “It is very important to let the let the Americans of that time and for all future times know how many men gave their lives for what they believed was right.” If they didn’t count the death tolls, we easily may have forgotten how horrific this war was. Those numbers show all of the heroes who fought for their beliefs, and remind us to never let anything like this ever happen again.
According to the author, counting the dead was so important because counting helped "grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation." (250). Americans during that time had been said to have an "infatuation with numbers," (251). So, knowing how many died "offered more than just the possibility of comprehension. However, it was sometimes difficultly to accurately determine the number of deaths after a battle. For example, reports made right after a battle could be inaccurate because many more wounded soldiers would die later. Still, the death toll was relatively accurate, and it helped many people understand the war.
I agree with Faust's views on the importance of counting the dead. An accurate death toll helped people come to realize how destructive the war was in terms of lives lost.
You made a great statement by saying,"By remembering the hundreds of thousands who’ve died, we can ensure that another civil war may never happen again." I totally agree, I think people are still today, astonished by how many people died in the Civil War.
According the Faust, counting the dead was very important for americans as it allowed them to confront "the conflict and its death tolls predisposed to seek understanding in quantitative terms." (251) Number helped many Americans under stand the death surrounding them. The numbers made the fact of death more believeable. As Faust stated, "counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to dead." (250) By counting, they could see just how expansive the losses caused be the war really were.
I agree with Faust the Counting is of great importance! Numbers help people see the sheer mass of loss in situations such as war. They truly help show just how many lives have been damaged and the scale the war was on.
In response to C.J and Chris Huth- I also agree with that statement " By remembering the hundreds of thousands who died, we can ensure that another civil war may never happen again." As Chris said, people are still astonished by the death count f the civil war. The Number's provide insite to the future if another civil war were to break out, although with modern day weaponry, the death toll would be much much greater. The amount of life lost in a civil war would greatly reduce the fighting forces, possibly giving opportunity to another country to invasion.
According to Faust, counting the dead was a way to make sense out of devastation and to put the dead at a distance. It "helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to dead." (250) It helped families see that they were not alone in their losses, for about 600,000 other families were going through the same thing.
I agree with Faust that counting the number of the dead is important. It puts to perspective the sheer number lost, and how destructive the war really was.
I completely agree with you when you say that the civil war could never happen again because there were so many lives lost. No one would ever want to go through that again; it would mean 6 million lives lost today.
Faust believes that counting the dead brought order to a country still dazed by what happened. More importantly, these numbers finally brought a conclusion to the horrible war. with these numbers, it meant that they were not going to increase, that the cost of reuniting the country was finally paid and it was time to grow and prosper. I agree completely with hr because it did bring an order to what happened. Today we constantly see death tolls rise from Afghanistan, but when the numbers are finally tallied up, it will be over.
Farmer, It is completely true that these numbers showed the loss and priice we paid for being United. The thing that the numbers don't show is the actual absence of the persons in life and in others' lives.
Faust tells us that the counting of the dead was an enormously important task. According to Faust, “counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.” (251) It helped to “grasp the magnitude of sorrow” (251) for all of those who suffered losses during the war. The numbers presented a way of generating “sense and order” to the “infinite dead.” After a war of such devastation, carnage, and grief, the numbers of the dead served as more than an understanding; they “promised a foundation for control.” (251) Control and relief were all Americans wished for in the years following the Civil War. I agree with Faust’s view on the importance of counting the dead. If I was living during the Civil War, I would be attracted to the “comprehensive and comprehensible character of numbers.” (259) They would have revealed the full extent of the war’s toll. Faust says that counting the dead was a way of naming the unknown soldiers. “Names might remain unknown, but numbers need not be.” (260) I completely support this belief. A name upon a list of the dead was just like one that marked a grave: “a repository of memory, a gesture of immortality.” Counting was something that honored the nameless, unknown soldiers who had made the “supreme sacrifice.” Counting was needed to find those soldiers.
RE: Erin “It also showed the true sacrifice of the war and allowed people to recognize the true sacrifice of the Civil War.” Well said. Without counting the soldiers, all of the soldiers, who, in the words of Wendell Holmes, have sacrificed themselves “in obedience to a blindly accepted duty,” who would have know how many men had done just that? How would they have been able to know how many bodies where “just [too] many bodies to count” (260) if it weren’t for the ones who counted them. You did a fine job of illustrating the extreme sacrifice made by hundreds of thousands of men.
“Counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow… to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society.” (250) At first, both sides tried to name everyone that died, but that proved fruitless. Instead they tried to count the dead that resulted from the war, to honor all the fallen and provide some comfort to their families. “Counting helped shift focus from the individual to total, from death to Dead.” (250)
I agree with Faust that counting was an important task. Counting helped the Nation fathom the total devastation came from the war.
Faust believed counting the dead was such an important task for a few reasons. One was it, "...helped switch focus from individual to total, from death to dead." This is true, by counting, specific soldiers became less important, they would become 1 in several thousand. Part of why it was so important had nothing to do with the actual deaths, "seeking not just a count for the dead but an accounting for death's impact." It was to find how many people were impacted by a loss. I think that another reason Faust believed counting was so important was so the United States could quite literally "count its losses."
I completely agree with Faust, counting the dead was very important. By counting the amount of soldiers who died at war, we gained closure and I believe an awkward relief with that closure as if to say "it’s finally over"
I completely agree that it was sad that each death was just a statistic. However, it was necessary because it made people realize just how big the war really was
Faust believed that counting the dead was of high importance during the war because it helped others to realize just how awful the war was and how many died. It was also important because, as Bushnell said, "the hundreds of thousands of lives lost be rendered purposeful, worth their expense of blood and suffering."
I agree with Faust because it brings attention to the whole picture of the war as a whole and the horrors that come with it. The fact that this was such a large war between a single country makes the deaths much worse in my opinion. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers killed in a single war is no small matter, and counting the deceased is very important, especially for future knowledge of the war.
Katie- I completey agree with your statement, "The fact that this was such a large war between a single country makes the deaths much worse in my opinion." The fact that it was a country against itself made the death toll, heartbreak and tension double.
Sevan- Thank you. I still cannot see how a country could fight against one another so brutally, except for the North fighting basically for an entire race of people to be freed. And like Jared said, it was necessary to count the dead to show how bad the war really was, even though it was very sad at the same time.
Thanks Matt- The use of pickets charge has been used as a historical reference in later wars and it is still taught at west point as an example of what not to do in a situation. I liked it when you said "The counting of the dead was able to find the true realistic cost of the Civil War." I disagree with you and Faust but I liked it anyway. Putting a price on the war helps no one on its own. only as a warning to commanders later on has any real importance
In response to erin I really liked your post and agree with you. I liked how you put in that other quote from another source. I also liked how you said that the numbers made people feel like they weren't alone. I never thought of it like that and really thought that was cool.
Fraust said that when words can’t describe such destruction, “counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow… to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation.” She believed that the society and the citizens need to focus on the fallen because the war has ended and that the dead was most important in that time. It had helped people realize how devasting the war was and how many had fallen within the time the war went on. It was important for them to see the impact and help the fallen have the burial the had deserved.
I agree with Fraust because it brings the significance and the honor to the war. I think it shows how many people had died and how horrific it was. She explains how everyone is impacted and that the fallen needs the proper burial. I definatly agree with what she says because the North and South definatly needed to understand the impact and the importance.
I agree with Katie because it was very important to count the deceased. It was not a small matter and the soliders deserved. They people needed to grieve over the ones who had fought. The people needed to grasp the understanding of tthe losses.
During the civil war counting the dead was a very important task because not only did it help to find the total amount of dead but it “helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.”(250) Which helped many people because it shifted the pain of death to a group and not just an individual, which helped many people get through many deaths. So I do agree with Faust’s assertion because not only did it help people deal with death but it also helped people come together because everyone had something in common and they could deal with it together and get through it together.
During the civil war counting the dead was a very important task because not only did it help to find the total amount of dead but it “helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.”(250) Which helped many people because it shifted the pain of death to a group and not just an individual, which helped many people get through many deaths. So I do agree with Faust’s assertion because not only did it help people deal with death but it also helped people come together because everyone had something in common and they could deal with it together and get through it together.
Chris I completely agree that finding the total number of death was so important because everyone should know how destructive the war really was, and that it also helped many people understand the war better.
According to Faust, counting the dead was such an important task because “numbers represented a means of imposing sense and order on what Walt Whitman tellingly depicted as the “countless graves” of the “infinite dead.””(251) After the conclusion of the Civil War, “counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.”(250) Most importantly, counting the dead “promised a foundation for control in a reality escaping the bounds of the imaginable.”(251)
ReplyDeleteI do agree with Faust’s assertion regarding the importance of counting the dead. I feel that statistical analysis of the carnage turned death into something distant and unidentifiable for survivors. The lives of husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons were transformed into tallies on casualty reports, which made them much easier to comprehend. While this is a bitter concept to grasp, counting the dead allowed Civil War survivors to acknowledge death as merely a statistic. This allowed them to more effectively come to terms with the unimaginable horrors that had been imposed by the war.
Faust believes that counting the dead "helped shift focus from individual to total, from dead to the Dead." "Counting had grown in the decades that proceeded the war." The counting during the Civil War helped to develop more recent ideas like, as historian Patricia Cline Cohen calls it, "infatuation with numbers." “The military’s purposes in counting the dead had also influenced the reliability of military records.” Also, as Nick pointed out, “Most importantly, counting the dead ‘promised a foundation for control in a reality escaping the bounds of the imaginable.’”
ReplyDeleteI agree Faust's assertion that counting the dead was such an important task. It helped to also in a way comfort the people who had lost love ones. This counting opened peoples' eyes to the fact that they were not alone. It also showed the true sacrifice of the war and allowed people to recognize the true sacrifice of the Civil War.
According to Faust, counting the dead became a important task because "the hundred of thousands of lives lost be rendered purposeful, worth their expense of blood and suffering. [As declared by Horace Bushnell]" (211). Once the carnage of the Civil War had stopped, the Americans needed to focus on the entire casualties of the war. As pointed out by Nick and Erin, it shifted the view of the dead from single individuals to the entire number. It was a way of escaping from some of the pain. It was a reality of the Civil War and this process acted as a 'control'.
ReplyDeleteI also agree that the idea of counting was an important task. The Civil War left few unscathed and the numbers became a huge realization to the masses. The idea that few would die had changed rapidly, and by witnessing first hand the devastation, they began to understand the sacrifices made. Families began to understand the pain of other families. And the two sides began and understanding of each other's pain. It would have served as an eye opening experience to the effects of war. But, as Erin mentioned, also of each's sacrifices for their beliefs.
Erin
ReplyDeleteI agree that the counting was very important. You couldn't just look at the war as though only you had felt the loss, but also that everyone had. People may have felt like that throughout the entire war, but once the fighting was done, it was about honoring the dead as a whole and a separate. It was a comfort and job. And as pointed out in the Chapter name, it was "Our Obligations to the Dead." (211).
Faust believed that counting for the dead was of major importance during the war. She says that when words can’t describe such destruction, “counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow… to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation” (250). It helped to “shift focus from individual to total” (250). Counting was a way of commanders to “assess battle’s challenges and achievements” (253) and know their assets left to work with. Eventually, “deaths became a measure not of defeat but of victory” (254), a way for military officials to know if they had succeeded at pushing the enemy back or had become the defeated.
ReplyDeleteI agree with her idea on the significance of counting. People realized that the war was nothing small like they had anticipated- it had become a horrendous battle with massive destruction. In knowing the numbers of casualties, an individual knew that he was not the only one suffering, that there were many others who had suffered loss as well. There was the understanding that “a world lay behind every name” (260). Counting the number of fallen soldiers made known the real meaning of the war and its costs.
Nick-
ReplyDeleteYou made a very good point when you stated that counting was a way of making death a statistic. It is difficult to grasp the idea of one hundred individual’s deaths, a thousand individual’s deaths, a hundred thousand individual’s deaths. By making a single death a “tally,” the idea of death was a lot easier for people to understand. They could see the numbers and realize the damage such a gruesome war had caused. Very good way of stating the concept.
Nick-
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your statement "The lives of husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons were transformed into tallies on casualty reports, which made them much easier to comprehend." When a loss is so vast, such as in the Civil War, it becomes hard to accept and understand it. Tallying the deaths provided people enormity of the deaths.
Numbering is a way for historians to chronicle the dead and the mistakes so that future generations of soldiers can learn from the consequences of poor medical care and human wave tactics it is also important to number so as to stem the assertions of "infinite dead"(121) these emotional accounts may help the historians such as Ms. Faust but they are of little consequence when the next war is on our heads. That is the purpose of history itself so that we don’t make the same mistakes emotion matters little when the war is upon you and you have to make the right decision.
ReplyDeleteFor example imagine you are a WWI commander and the Germans are on the higher ground and have artillery. You then remember that Pickets charge during Gettysburg was in the same situation you take into account the casualties and the men necessary to have made that charge successful if you have the men and equipment to take the battlefield that is great but if you don't you will learn from history and hold your position. Emotion is secondary tactic are paramount
According to Faust, counting the dead was such an important task because “Americans confronted the conflict and its death tolls predisposed,”(251). It also was to understand the war like said here “In the face of the war’s scale and horror, statistics offered more than just the possibility of comprehension.”(251). There is also “countless graves” of the “infinite deaths” said by Walt Whitman. This was big because most people wanted what this “young South Carolina women” when she said she was “seeking not just a count of the dead but an accounting for death’s impact.”(250). The last big thing was “When at last the war was over, the nation demanded the answer to her plea.”
ReplyDeletePersonally I agree with Faust on the importance of the death tolls. I think that getting the death tolls would be one way to get this war into are past in a way. Counting the deaths lets us know exactly how bad this war was and when that is down the people in this time can move on with their life. It was also a good thing to have people comprehend the Civil War. Knowing how many people had died in the Civil War would let people know how bad this war was and they can comprehend this horrific war. Also comprehending was a good way to get the war in the past. The biggest thing for the death tolls are to have people comprehend and put the horrific Civil War in the past.
Nick,
ReplyDeleteI agree with your comment. I like the comments on Faust and the importance of death tolls. All the quotations you put down were good but by far the best was “countless graves” of the “infinite dead.””(251). That was good. Also saying this, “counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.”(250) was good. Agreeing with Faust was also good because I agree with you. Saying that the tolls would help comprehend the war and it horror. A good one is saying that the surviving soldiers would see the deaths as statistics. That was a good comment.
According to faust numbering was a way to put organization and sense to the losses. The statistics also ment more than just the possibility of comprhension. The numbers not only ment the numbers of the dead but the impact of death itself.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Fausrs points because numbering the dead was not just for historical facts or just to be put away in some book. They were there for feeling and showing the impact of the death during this time. This showed exactly how hirrble this war was on the people of that time,and still to Americans today. These numbers also helped people out this horrible war in the past.
According to Faust, counting the dead was a very important task during and after the war. One cannot put a price on dying, but counting the dead put a price on the Civil War. The more soldiers who died, the higher the price was for the war. “Numbers represented a means of imposing sense and order on what Walt Whitman tellingly depicted as the ‘countless graves’ of the ‘infinite dead’.” (251) Statistics, such as numbers, worked toward finding out the toll of the war. Through this process of counting, the reality of war came into perspective for all those who witnessed and survived it.
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree with Faust’s assertion about numbers and counting. When going into war, one must know the price he is willing to pay to win. When I say the word “price,” what do you think of? Money? Wealth? What about price being the sacrifice that the soldiers paid to make us what we are today. People in those times couldn’t comprehend war unless there was a number or price affiliated with it. The counting of the dead was able to find the true realistic cost of the Civil War.
Re: pstidwell
ReplyDeleteI like that you elaborated on Picket’s charge during the battle of Gettysburg. If the price had been too high, do you think Picket would have still fought? Gettysburg was one of the bloodiest battles in the war. The number of dead at the end of the battle put a true cost on the overall war. When looking back on the Civil War, the counting of the dead was like the receipt of the war. It showed the price America paid to fight.
Faust believed that counting the dead was a very important task. Statistics often appeared to speak more to the people than words could. It was often hard to grasp the idea of how many men were actually lost until one saw a number. In a way, counting also brought a sense of relief to some people. "Names might remain unknown, but numbers need not be."(260) Counting was also a way for both the North and the South to honor their dead. This was a system to ensure that no man died without being acknowledged, even if his identity was lost. Naming was very difficult to do, but counting was much easier. In the South, they believed that counting told "...the story of 'how well [their unit had] stood'..."(259)
ReplyDeleteI do agree with Faust regarding the importance of counting the dead. I think it was another way for people to show respect to soldiers that had lost their lives fighting in the war for what they believed in. Counting may not have been as sought after as the identities if lost loved ones, but I think it brought understanding to people. It showed exactly how many men had lost their lives fighting for a cause. This was a very powerful thing.
Larissa,
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you have said. I also believe that counting showed people how out of hand the war had become. You make a good point when you say " an individual knew that he was not the only one suffering". I think this was very important for people during this time. They needed to know that they were not alone, and counting reinforced this idea.
According to Faust, counting the dead was a very important task. Statistics often spoke to people more than actual words did. The more soldiers that had died made the statistics even more reliable than words. Statistics of the war, such as numbers had worked in order to find the death toll of the war. As the body count rose, the reality of what civilians and surviving soldiers had encountered during the war became true.
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree with what Faust had written. A person who wants to join the army has to understand that, because you have joined the army means you are willing to die in order to achieve victory. People back then couldn’t understand war unless there was a number to go along with it. Counting the dead made many people realize that there was a cost in the Civil war.
I agree with what Matt had said. I too agree with Faust’s assertion about the numbers and counting. The actual cost of the Civil war had not been understood correctly by many.
Kendra,
ReplyDeleteYou make a very good point when you state that counting the dead was “another way for people to show respect to soldiers that had lost their lives fighting in the war for what they believed in.” I think that our nation making the monumental effort it did to count our dead is a testament to our determination to show respect for all of the soldiers that had been killed in the Civil War. By attempting to identify all those who had been killed, the people of the United States ensured that the men who had died so that our nation could be what it is today would never be forgotten.
The author explains how important it is to count the dead with many passages in Chapter 8. One passage stuck out to me; "statistics every unit of which stands for the pale, upturned face of a dead soldier. These were not cold abstractions but numbers that literally...possessed a human face." (260). It makes sense to count every single dead man that was lost in the Civil War. Every man fought for their side and they should be honored with a number on the casualty list. Each number represents each soldier's efforts in the war, and that makes it very important to count every soldier's death.
ReplyDeleteAnd I have to say I do agree with Faust's assertion. The importance of counting every man is very significant. It shows that we respect and appreciate all the men that did die for us. The statistics show that no soldier will die un-noticed; because we do value their efforts in the Civil War.
Counting the dead was such an important task according to Faust because there were so many deaths and they seemed infinite. Americans had an "infatuation with numbers,"(251) and by counting the dead it "promised a foundation for control in a reality escaping the bounds of the unimaginable."(251) It helped people understand the carnage of the Civil War. To bring in actual statistics instead of words helped greatly. People often got "false impressions as to the extent of losses." Bringing in numbers gave people a realistic idea of how many soldiers died. It also helped the military. It helped the military know "who was left to fight."(252) "A commander needed to know his military strength."(252) This helped greatly in case the U.S. needed protection soon. It also honored the dead. People would respect the soldiers more if they knew how many actually gave their lives fighting for what they believe in.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust's assertion. It is very important to let the American's of that time and for all future times know how many men gave their lives for what they believed was right. It shows that we care greatly for the sacrifice the soldiers made by counting all their deaths. Telling everyone the great number of lives lost helps the U.S. remember the severity of the war even today.
Danielle Sheehan,
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you wrote. You said "The statistics show that no soldier will die un-noticed; because we do value their efforts in the Civil War." Counting the dead greatly honors them. Instead of the outrageous numbers some people claimed had died it showed people the actual number of deaths. Each stastitic represents a soldier who gave his life for what he believed in, and that deserves to be honored.
Evan,
ReplyDeleteWhen you said that "when a person joins the army they have to realize they might die to achieve victory," I was saying to myself, yes I completely agree with that. A soldier entering a war should know what they are getting themselves into. I also think that for the outsiders in the war, such as women, elders, and etc., the numbers were there for them, so they too could realize the depths of the war. And Evan I also agreed with your statement that people did not understand the war without the death numbers to back it up. People back then were innocent to battles that huge, for us in twenty-first century, we understand the concept of death numbers since we have experienced it more often then the people during the Civil War time.
Counting deaths was such an important task to Faust because of the seemingly infinate numbers. "Americans confronted the conflict and it's death tolls predisposed to seek understanding in quantitative terms. In the face of the war's scale and horror, statistics offered more then just the possiblility of comprehension." Faust believed that the numbers helped Americans understand the "countless graves" and the "infinite dead". The numbers helped people nationwide understand how big of a toll the war really was. Still today the numbers help people understand the vast size of the Civil War.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust because counting the dead helped a nation understand how big the war was, the numbers "took on new salience with the outbreak of war."
Matt Coen-
ReplyDeleteYour statement that the numbers of the Civil War helped people understand the price that was paid for our freedom was very strong and very well thought through. "When going into war, one must know the price he is willing to pay to win. When I say the word “price,” what do you think of? Money? Wealth? What about price being the sacrifice that the soldiers paid to make us what we are today". I believe that this is what Faust wanted us to see. Great job Matt.
According to Faust counting the dead was a very important job. It showed the South and the North of how may died for their nation and cause. Also it helped keep track of all the soldiers who lost thier lives. Almost 500,000 americans lost their lives in the Civil War and out of all the wars in U.S. history the Civil War had the the highest death toll.It Also kind of was a rememberance to the all the soldies.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust's idea of counting Just like many of you do. It kept track of the dead and also reminded many Americans of what happened in the Civil War. It also showed everyone the cost of war.
Matt,
ReplyDeleteyou made a really good comparison when you said “When looking back on the Civil War, the counting of the dead was like the receipt of the war. It showed the price America paid to fight.” That comparison is so true. It helped everyone understand how much America had truly lost.
Tanner Corah-
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement that "Telling everyone the great number of lives lost helps the U.S. remember the severity of the war even today." Reading over the statistics of the number of deaths during the Civil War was almost like a wake-up call to me, because I'd never really realized before the severity of the Civil War, and I'm sure many other Americans in the past and present have felt that way too.
According to Faust, counting the dead was such an important task because it helped them realize the magnitude of their losses. "Counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation. Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead" (page 250). They also counted not just to count the dead, but to account for the impact all the deaths had made. For soldiers who had fought in the war, sometimes counting helped them find an explanation and a justification for the turnout of a battle. People would count to "establish the dimensions of the war's sacrifice and the price of freedom and national unity. They counted becausenumbers offered an illusion of certitude and control in the aftermath of a conflict that had transformed the apparent limits of human brutality. They counted, too, because there were just so many bodies to count. Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatially new about this war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost" (page 260).
ReplyDeleteI agree with Fast's assertion about counting. I think counting helped Americans realize and understand how many people had given their lives willingly to fight for their country and what they believed in. The huge amount of fatalites helped show people in the past, present, and future how much the Civil War really meant. The statistics help to show the real severity of this incredible war.
According to Faust counting the dead was of the upmost importance because it was vital to put a price on the lost. The Civil War took more than 600,000 lives and Faust felt that it helped to know that your loved one was simply a part of that statistic. “Numbers represented a means of imposing sense and order on what Walt Whitman tellingly depicted as the ‘countless graves’ of the ‘infinite dead’.” (251) This type of loss needs to be disclosed. When so many people lose someone to the war, it helps to make them simply a statistic. Faust felt that counting the dead and knowing the statistics would help Americans move on, heal, and forget.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with what she is saying here. When you know that your father, brother, son or husband was one of 600,000 men to die in the Civil War it helps put a perspective on what the loss really was. Putting a price on something can cause you to lose taste or lessen the value of it very quickly such as a car or a home, and I feel that the same principles apply in this situation.
According to Faust counting the dead was such an important task because it gave people a sense of how many the country lost. It allowed people to get back to reality and to see the reality of the "countless dead." "They counted to establish the dimensions of the war's sacrifice and the price of freedom and national unity." Counting really showed the price of war and how important freedom was to people. Numbers of the dead of the Civil War gave a sense of the losses, of what people were grieving, and of what Americans were facing.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with Faust that counting the dead of the Civil War was important. I agree because counting really woke the American people up, showing them the number of men who died for their country. Giving them statistics made it easier for families to comprehend the deaths. Sadly the outrageous numbers allowed people to grasp the terror put forth by the war.
Jenni Robinson,
ReplyDeleteThat was very well written. I agree with you when you said "The huge amount of fatalites helped show people in the past, present, and future how much the Civil War really meant. The statistics help to show the real severity of this incredible war." The statistics are showing us teenagers now what had to occur to get freedom back then.
In Response to Nick
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with what you are saying here. I definitely agreed with you when you said "The lives of husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons were transformed into tallies on casualty reports, which made them much easier to comprehend." This is definitely true, and as you said it made things much easier to grasp. Adding it all up helped the healing process and made it much easier to cope and move on.
According to Faust, counting the dead was a very important task because it let the country know how many soldiers were lost in the war. It showed how many died for the North, and how many died for the South.
ReplyDeleteI agree with her assertion because I feel that it was important to let people know what really happened during the war, by how many people died.
Tori Kelly-
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement of "counting the dead helped a nation understand how big the war was." The nation deserved to know how big the war really was, and families deserved to know what their loved ones died for.
Faust believed that counting the dead was so important because it shows the true destruction of the war and brings attention to the losses as a whole instead of individual. With the totals of the war losses poeple can see how bad it can get. With the people informed they may be more likely to try and keep the peace. I do agree that the counting was important because people of the country need to know the true cost of the war.
ReplyDeleteFaust felt that counting the dead was an important task because it helped people really grasp the idea of how many people were killed in this war. It "helped shift the focus from individual to total" It made people stop just thinking about their own loss, but about their nations loss as a whole.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Fausts assertion. I think that people needed to realize how truely devastating this war was, so that it would never happen again.
Faust believed that counting the dead was such an important task because it helps show what really happened during the war. You could talk about a tiny battle of only ten people and it sound like a big deal until you find out how many people were involved. So getting the exact number or as close as possible is very important because it show the significance of it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust because that was a big part of our history and things like that need to be noted.
I agree with Mary Harris. The tolls that both sides took is an important fact in our history and it helps many to grasp the idea. "Statistics offer more than just the possibility of comprehension"(251).
ReplyDeleteIn Response to Tanner Corah
ReplyDeleteThe I agree with the statement "People would respect the soldiers more if they knew how many actually gave their lives fighting for what they believe in." I think that this is very true, and it might have been difficult for some civilians to grasp how many soldiers sacrificed their lives if they didnt have an actual number.
According to Faust, counting the death tolls of the Civil War was an extremely important task. She states, “In the face of the war’s scale and horror, statistics offered more than just the possibility of comprehension,” (251). Faust implied that statistics could bring a sense of closure to the war and grieving process in which the families and friends of the bereaved were going through. With the great magnitude of the war’s carnage and death toll brought on a wave of despair and grief. For some time, because the magnitude of the war was not quite known, families must have felt quite lonely in their sorrow. Because the statistics gave an idea of how many people were experiencing such desolation, a new aspect came into play. One could now see that their struggles, sorrow, and despair was shared, as was their cause of war. The people were once again united.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust’s opinion that counting the dead was an important task without any reservation. It was important for the families to finally feel a sense of unity with their community. Also, without a sort of closure, the grieving process could continue without end. As Faust said, “In the face of the inadequacy of words, counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation.” (250)
In response to Chandler Cerveny:
ReplyDeleteAs you said, "getting the exact number or as close as possible is very important because it show the significance of it." The significance of a battle is an important part of war. It determines the wins and the losses. Overall, it will determine the victor of a war and which cause proved to be more worthy.
Faust believed that counting the dead was so important because numbers spoke louder than words. Americans in that time had an “infatuation with numbers,"(251) and still do.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust’s idea’s because the number’s show how truly huge the sacrifice of the war was.
According to Faust, counting the number of fatalities was of crucial importance because this would easily prove the true cost of the Civil War. “Numbers represented a means of imposing sense and order" (251) and knowing the number of men who had sacrificed themselves for their beliefs was a necessity. These statistics served to show everybody just how vastly devistating this conflict had really been.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with her assertion because it seems to me that it was imperative to know the accurate number of lives lost to the fighting. Knowing the quantity of soldiers who had fallen while serving their respective sides was correct to have been a priority. Faust's allegation was, in my opinion, very precise.
Erin,
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you said about the task of counting the men fallen in battle helping to open "peoples' eyes to the fact that they were not alone" in having lost a loved one. You also said that coming up with an accurate number of deaths was of aid to showing "the true sacrifice of the war" and this I also agree with. 600,000 is a huge number and knowing that this digit represents the men lost in the Civil War allows us to imagine just how immense this conflict ended up being.
Faust believed that counting the dead was so important because “…counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow…and helped shift the focus from individual to total, from death to Dead” (250). The number of dead during the Civil War was an unimaginable number, but knowing that there was a person behind every tally of those that died, and also a family that was mourning as well, was inconceivable. Americans had to “… seek understanding in quantative terms. In the face of the war’s scale and horror, statistics offered more than just the possibility of comprehension. Their provision of seemingly objective knowledge promised a foundation for control in a reality escaping the bounds of the imaginable” (251). People were able, in a sense, to comprehend numbers much more than just knowing that it had destroyed families and that many were dead.
ReplyDeleteKnowing the numbers also showed how much each side had sacrificed. “…numbers became a language in which to express and assess battle’s challenges and achievements” (253). The soldiers couldn’t really explain the horrors of the war in words, but numbers were able to tell everyone about their sacrifice. One general was able to “…explain his military virtuosity by translating his experiences into numbers of dead” (253).
Many soldiers had also died that were unidentifiable. They were still able to be honored because even though they had lost their name their sacrifice was still remembered in a number. Numbers showed how much the nation had given up.
I agree that numbers were important. It helped the nation understand what the Civil War had done. It is sad that each life had to become a statistic but there was no other way of comprehending what had happened. “‘One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic.’” I think that knowing the numbers helped families grasp what had happened instead of just knowing that many had died.
According to Faust, counting the dead was such an important task because “In the face of the inadequacy of words, counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow”. (250). Counting allowed a specific answer to the vague question of how bad the war really was. However, while counting provided a definitive answer, it was still a difficult task to comprehend hundreds of thousands of deaths, “Yet even as they counted, Americans speculated about what the numbers they so eagerly amassed actually meant.” (259). I concur with Charles Lewis, that ‘Had a million been slain, it would have been only one in a million homes.’ Even by counting the dead the war was still incomprehensible, however it did help citizens grasp the immensity of the war.
ReplyDeleteI fully agree with Faust’s assertion of the importance of counting the dead, because “statistics offered more than just the possibility of comprehension. Their provision of seemingly objective knowledge promised a foundation for control in a reality escaping the bounds of the imaginable.” (251). By remembering the hundreds of thousands who’ve died, we can ensure that another civil war may never happen again.
In response to Tanner,
ReplyDeleteI agree that “It is very important to let the let the Americans of that time and for all future times know how many men gave their lives for what they believed was right.” If they didn’t count the death tolls, we easily may have forgotten how horrific this war was. Those numbers show all of the heroes who fought for their beliefs, and remind us to never let anything like this ever happen again.
According to the author, counting the dead was so important because counting helped "grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation." (250). Americans during that time had been said to have an "infatuation with numbers," (251). So, knowing how many died "offered more than just the possibility of comprehension. However, it was sometimes difficultly to accurately determine the number of deaths after a battle. For example, reports made right after a battle could be inaccurate because many more wounded soldiers would die later. Still, the death toll was relatively accurate, and it helped many people understand the war.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust's views on the importance of counting the dead. An accurate death toll helped people come to realize how destructive the war was in terms of lives lost.
In response to CJ
ReplyDeleteYou made a great statement by saying,"By remembering the hundreds of thousands who’ve died, we can ensure that another civil war may never happen again." I totally agree, I think people are still today, astonished by how many people died in the Civil War.
According the Faust, counting the dead was very important for americans as it allowed them to confront "the conflict and its death tolls predisposed to seek understanding in quantitative terms." (251) Number helped many Americans under stand the death surrounding them. The numbers made the fact of death more believeable. As Faust stated, "counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to dead." (250) By counting, they could see just how expansive the losses caused be the war really were.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust the Counting is of great importance! Numbers help people see the sheer mass of loss in situations such as war. They truly help show just how many lives have been damaged and the scale the war was on.
In response to C.J and Chris Huth-
ReplyDeleteI also agree with that statement " By remembering the hundreds of thousands who died, we can ensure that another civil war may never happen again." As Chris said, people are still astonished by the death count f the civil war. The Number's provide insite to the future if another civil war were to break out, although with modern day weaponry, the death toll would be much much greater. The amount of life lost in a civil war would greatly reduce the fighting forces, possibly giving opportunity to another country to invasion.
According to Faust, counting the dead was a way to make sense out of devastation and to put the dead at a distance. It "helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to dead." (250) It helped families see that they were not alone in their losses, for about 600,000 other families were going through the same thing.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust that counting the number of the dead is important. It puts to perspective the sheer number lost, and how destructive the war really was.
C.J
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you when you say that the civil war could never happen again because there were so many lives lost. No one would ever want to go through that again; it would mean 6 million lives lost today.
Faust believes that counting the dead brought order to a country still dazed by what happened. More importantly, these numbers finally brought a conclusion to the horrible war. with these numbers, it meant that they were not going to increase, that the cost of reuniting the country was finally paid and it was time to grow and prosper. I agree completely with hr because it did bring an order to what happened. Today we constantly see death tolls rise from Afghanistan, but when the numbers are finally tallied up, it will be over.
ReplyDeleteFarmer,
ReplyDeleteIt is completely true that these numbers showed the loss and priice we paid for being United. The thing that the numbers don't show is the actual absence of the persons in life and in others' lives.
Faust tells us that the counting of the dead was an enormously important task. According to Faust, “counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.” (251) It helped to “grasp the magnitude of sorrow” (251) for all of those who suffered losses during the war. The numbers presented a way of generating “sense and order” to the “infinite dead.” After a war of such devastation, carnage, and grief, the numbers of the dead served as more than an understanding; they “promised a foundation for control.” (251) Control and relief were all Americans wished for in the years following the Civil War.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust’s view on the importance of counting the dead. If I was living during the Civil War, I would be attracted to the “comprehensive and comprehensible character of numbers.” (259) They would have revealed the full extent of the war’s toll. Faust says that counting the dead was a way of naming the unknown soldiers. “Names might remain unknown, but numbers need not be.” (260) I completely support this belief. A name upon a list of the dead was just like one that marked a grave: “a repository of memory, a gesture of immortality.” Counting was something that honored the nameless, unknown soldiers who had made the “supreme sacrifice.” Counting was needed to find those soldiers.
RE: Erin
ReplyDelete“It also showed the true sacrifice of the war and allowed people to recognize the true sacrifice of the Civil War.” Well said. Without counting the soldiers, all of the soldiers, who, in the words of Wendell Holmes, have sacrificed themselves “in obedience to a blindly accepted duty,” who would have know how many men had done just that? How would they have been able to know how many bodies where “just [too] many bodies to count” (260) if it weren’t for the ones who counted them. You did a fine job of illustrating the extreme sacrifice made by hundreds of thousands of men.
“Counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow… to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society.” (250) At first, both sides tried to name everyone that died, but that proved fruitless. Instead they tried to count the dead that resulted from the war, to honor all the fallen and provide some comfort to their families. “Counting helped shift focus from the individual to total, from death to Dead.” (250)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust that counting was an important task. Counting helped the Nation fathom the total devastation came from the war.
Faust believed counting the dead was such an important task for a few reasons. One was it, "...helped switch focus from individual to total, from death to dead." This is true, by counting, specific soldiers became less important, they would become 1 in several thousand. Part of why it was so important had nothing to do with the actual deaths, "seeking not just a count for the dead but an accounting for death's impact." It was to find how many people were impacted by a loss. I think that another reason Faust believed counting was so important was so the United States could quite literally "count its losses."
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Faust, counting the dead was very important. By counting the amount of soldiers who died at war, we gained closure and I believe an awkward relief with that closure as if to say "it’s finally over"
In response to Mikayla Greenwell
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that it was sad that each death was just a statistic. However, it was necessary because it made people realize just how big the war really was
Faust believed that counting the dead was of high importance during the war because it helped others to realize just how awful the war was and how many died. It was also important because, as Bushnell said, "the hundreds of thousands of lives lost be rendered purposeful, worth their expense of blood and suffering."
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust because it brings attention to the whole picture of the war as a whole and the horrors that come with it. The fact that this was such a large war between a single country makes the deaths much worse in my opinion. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers killed in a single war is no small matter, and counting the deceased is very important, especially for future knowledge of the war.
Katie-
ReplyDeleteI completey agree with your statement, "The fact that this was such a large war between a single country makes the deaths much worse in my opinion." The fact that it was a country against itself made the death toll, heartbreak and tension double.
Sevan-
ReplyDeleteThank you. I still cannot see how a country could fight against one another so brutally, except for the North fighting basically for an entire race of people to be freed. And like Jared said, it was necessary to count the dead to show how bad the war really was, even though it was very sad at the same time.
Thanks Matt-
ReplyDeleteThe use of pickets charge has been used as a historical reference in later wars and it is still taught at west point as an example of what not to do in a situation. I liked it when you said "The counting of the dead was able to find the true realistic cost of the Civil War." I disagree with you and Faust but I liked it anyway. Putting a price on the war helps no one on its own. only as a warning to commanders later on has any real importance
In response to erin
ReplyDeleteI really liked your post and agree with you. I liked how you put in that other quote from another source. I also liked how you said that the numbers made people feel like they weren't alone. I never thought of it like that and really thought that was cool.
Fraust said that when words can’t describe such destruction, “counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow… to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation.” She believed that the society and the citizens need to focus on the fallen because the war has ended and that the dead was most important in that time. It had helped people realize how devasting the war was and how many had fallen within the time the war went on. It was important for them to see the impact and help the fallen have the burial the had deserved.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Fraust because it brings the significance and the honor to the war. I think it shows how many people had died and how horrific it was. She explains how everyone is impacted and that the fallen needs the proper burial. I definatly agree with what she says because the North and South definatly needed to understand the impact and the importance.
I agree with Katie because it was very important to count the deceased. It was not a small matter and the soliders deserved. They people needed to grieve over the ones who had fought. The people needed to grasp the understanding of tthe losses.
ReplyDeleteDuring the civil war counting the dead was a very important task because not only did it help to find the total amount of dead but it “helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.”(250) Which helped many people because it shifted the pain of death to a group and not just an individual, which helped many people get through many deaths. So I do agree with Faust’s assertion because not only did it help people deal with death but it also helped people come together because everyone had something in common and they could deal with it together and get through it together.
ReplyDeleteDuring the civil war counting the dead was a very important task because not only did it help to find the total amount of dead but it “helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.”(250) Which helped many people because it shifted the pain of death to a group and not just an individual, which helped many people get through many deaths. So I do agree with Faust’s assertion because not only did it help people deal with death but it also helped people come together because everyone had something in common and they could deal with it together and get through it together.
ReplyDeleteChris
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that finding the total number of death was so important because everyone should know how destructive the war really was, and that it also helped many people understand the war better.